Awaken Bible Prophecy Update 5-22-24 – 6th Seal Rapture Delusion

Following my Commentary titled Post-Tribber Tribulation Saga, I had an explosion of comments from a reader who has popped up over the years to contest the doctrine of the pre-Seal, pre-Tribulation Rapture with the idea that the Rapture instead occurs at the 6th Seal Judgment.  Greg is quite adamant that his view is the only one with Scriptural integrity regardless that literally NO ONE else has ever put forth this idea.  In other words, Greg is out on a limb entirely without any other known believers supporting this idea.  Only he has gotten the wisdom and insight from God for his position.  In fact, Greg has a habit of accusing those of us who believe in the pre-Seal, pre-Tribulation Rapture as having distorted the Words of God and apparently being part of, or closely following, the doctrines of the world’s religion (singular), namely the Catholic church from what I can glean.

 

 

Transcript:

Following my Commentary titled Post-Tribber Tribulation Saga, I had an explosion of comments from a reader who has popped up over the years to contest the doctrine of the pre-Seal, pre-Tribulation Rapture with the idea that the Rapture instead occurs at the 6th Seal Judgment.  Greg is quite adamant that his view is the only one with Scriptural integrity regardless that literally NO ONE else has ever put forth this idea.  In other words, Greg is out on a limb entirely without any other known believers supporting this idea.  Only he has gotten the wisdom and insight from God for his position.  In fact, Greg has a habit of accusing those of us who believe in the pre-Seal, pre-Tribulation Rapture as having distorted the Words of God and apparently being part of, or closely following, the doctrines of the world’s religion (singular), namely the Catholic church from what I can glean.

 

We’ll dive into this subject momentarily to hopefully learn some lessons, but first, let’s pray and read from God’s Word.

 

<PRAY>

 

Scripture:

 

1 Thessalonians 5:1-11

Now concerning the times and the seasons, brothers, you have no need to have anything written to you. For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. But you are not in darkness, brothers, for that day to surprise you like a thief. For you are all children of light, children of the day. We are not of the night or of the darkness. So then let us not sleep, as others do, but let us keep awake and be sober. For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, are drunk at night. But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and for a helmet the hope of salvation. For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us so that whether we are awake or asleep we might live with him. Therefore encourage one another and build one another up, just as you are doing.

 

 

6th Seal Rapture Delusion

 

  • In his fervor for his eschatological position, Greg vomits a lot of Scriptures to allegedly prove his points.
  • And I mean vomits.
  • I extracted all his comments from the Rumble posting of this Commentary and ended up with a 44-page document.
  • Then I distilled his main points into 8 pages.
  • See the lengths that I go to for you guys?
  • No doubt I’ll get a flurry of comments from Greg for my audacity of addressing this issue, but such is the cross I bear.
  • FYI – since I compiled all those comments of his, Greg has posted at least four more times – just again yesterday and this morning.
  • By all means if you want your punishment for the day, go to the Rumble page posting of this Commentary and indulge yourself.

 

  • Obviously, God’s Word is our absolute and final go-to authority.
  • However, what I see with Greg is that he’s like the Pharisees.
  • If you don’t buy what he’s selling, you have corrupted the Scriptures, proven God a liar, and because of your blasphemy, you are going to hell for it.
  • He is extremely contentious in his views and doesn’t appear capable of reasoned logic using Scriptures; he has his arsenal of verses and seemingly attempts to overwhelm with his Biblical knowledge.
  • The only problem is that his Rapture perspective is skewed because – among other reasons – he simply misinterprets what God is saying.
  • He makes leaps in his understanding as to what various verses mean.
  • Beyond that he appears to ignore various Rapture passages that don’t fit his narrative.

 

  • Why am getting into this?
  • Lucky you, I spent the time trying to distill all that Greg disgorged in my Comments section to the aforementioned Commentary.
  • In one sense I think it’s useful to see where others are coming from who feel they must dispute the pre-Seal, pre-Trib Rapture.
  • Note that I have to use that extra qualifier (pre-Seal) in this case in order to discuss all this accurately.
  • As I said, Greg has been around for a while, and one time I asked him why he doesn’t just get a blog of his own to put forth his position.
  • He said something to the effect that he was called by God to argue his beliefs in other people’s Comments sections.
  • What a merciful God we have.
  • In the other sense that I decided to discuss this a little, I want to try to point out some of Greg’s fallacious thinking, not that it will change his mind, but will perhaps be useful for others to consider.
  • I’ve said many times that one of my objectives is to get people to think.
  • That means not just quoting Scripture, not just repeating what your pastor told you, but rather to search God’s Word for His truth AND to be able to articulate the logic behind the belief.
  • God created us with a mind to think and to reason.
  • He wants us to use it.

 

  • I’ve seen this approach of spewing Scripture a number of times with others besides Greg, and I want to make clear what the problem is.
  • Far too many people will quote Bible verses until they’re blue in the face to justify themselves, but they don’t attempt to actually engage the text.
  • We should and must use Scripture as our only authoritative source – no doubt about that.
  • However, doesn’t it make more sense to read a passage and seek its deeper understanding that you can then explain in layman’s terms to others?
  • What good does it do to overwhelm with Bible verses that people are going to simply glaze over at the volume?
  • A few well-placed verses in context to a logical argument – in my humble opinion – will have much more impact.
  • I hope my approach in these Commentaries meets that ideal.
  • Creating a brain fog through a miasma of Scripture does no one any good.

 

  • As most of you know who follow my Commentaries, you’re likely aware that I’m fervently of the understanding that the Rapture must precede all the Tribulation Judgments including the first five Seals.
  • I’m not sure what to even call Greg’s belief other than 6th Seal Rapture.
  • That’s what I’ll do in this discussion looking at his arguments as best I can determine them and contrast them with my own understanding of the Rapture.

 

  • So, what is Greg thinking in his advocacy for a 6th Seal Rapture?
  • Much of his contention comes from his understanding of the Day of the Lord.
  • Many of the verses he puts forth refer to this seminal event.

 

  • What is the general understanding of the Day of the Lord versus how Greg interprets it?
  • Got Questions has a pretty good description of it.
  • Here are selected excerpts:

 

The phrase “day of the Lord” usually identifies events that take place at the end of history (Isaiah 7:18-25) and is often closely associated with the phrase “that day.” One key to understanding these phrases is to note that they always identify a span of time during which God personally intervenes in history, directly or indirectly, to accomplish some specific aspect of His plan.

Most people associate the day of the Lord with a period of time or a special day that will occur when God’s will and purpose for His world and for mankind will be fulfilled. Some scholars believe that the day of the Lord will be a longer period of time than a single day—a period of time when Christ will reign throughout the world before He cleanses heaven and earth in preparation for the eternal state of all mankind. Other scholars believe the day of the Lord will be an instantaneous event when Christ returns to earth to redeem His faithful believers and send unbelievers to eternal damnation.

 

The Old Testament passages dealing with the day of the Lord often convey a sense of imminence, nearness, and expectation: “Wail, for the day of the Lord is near!” (Isaiah 13:6); 

 

The New Testament calls it a day of “wrath,” a day of “visitation,” and the “great day of God Almighty” (Revelation 16:14) and refers to a still future fulfillment when God’s wrath is poured out on unbelieving Israel (Isaiah 22Jeremiah 30:1-17Joel 1-2Amos 5Zephaniah 1) and on the unbelieving world (Ezekiel 38–39Zechariah 14). 

 

Besides being a time of judgment, it will also be a time of salvation as God will deliver the remnant of Israel, fulfilling His promise that “all of Israel will be saved” (Romans 11:26), forgiving their sins and restoring His chosen people to the land He promised to Abraham (Isaiah 10:27; Jeremiah 30:19-31, 40; Micah 4Zechariah 13).

 

  • From this we can conclude that the Day of the Lord is not necessarily a single day; rather is a span of time, although there is definitely a climactic day that occurs.
  • It is a period of God’s wrath that is poured out upon the unbelieving world, and – note this: it is that time at which Israel is both punished and redeemed.
  • Among probably other things, Greg believes the Day of the Lord is when the Rapture occurs.
  • Just a note here: I’m doing my best to interpret what Greg believes and advocates from the many comments he’s made.
  • I’m probably misunderstanding some of his thinking, so for that I apologize.

 

  • Where does Greg get the idea that the Day of the Lord is crucial to his Rapture timing?
  • Consider Revelation 6:12-17, particularly verses 12 and 17 (KJV, since that’s what Greg quotes):

 

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

 

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

 

  • Thus, from what I can tell, Greg is conflating the various OT descriptions of this great and awesome day with the 6th Seal as the great day of the Lord’s wrath.

 

  • There’s obviously nothing here that indicates the Rapture of the church – the various references to the Day of the Lord all have to do with terrible judgment.

 

  • There are those folks who advocate for a 5th Seal Rapture, and you can see why some might do so.
  • At least we have saints of the Lord appearing here before God’s throne.
  • The problem is that they’re all dead saints in Christ as we see in Revelation 6:10-11:

 

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

 

  • These are obviously martyrs who died in the first 4 Seals.
  • Note that they are petitioning the throne to avenge their own blood, and they refer to other Tribulation saints who will be killed just as this group was killed and martyred.
  • There’s no way we can consider this group in heaven as having been the Raptured church.
  • The text simply doesn’t support that.

 

  • One of the arguments that Greg makes is that those of us who believe in a pre-Seal, pre-Tribulation Rapture actually believe in two Raptures.
  • Why he says this, I don’t know.
  • I’ve certainly never made such a claim, and I don’t know of any other pre-Trib teachers who have stated that.
  • This is one of many straw men that Greg conjures up.
  • So we’re clear, a straw man is a claim that is invented in order to win an argument.
  • As I mentioned earlier, Greg also seems to lump pre-Tribbers into a category that follows the world’s false religion – presumably Catholicism, since he makes a big deal using this terminology.
  • Trust me, Greg, I have nothing to do with the beliefs of Catholicism.
  • In fact, the Roman Catholic Church doesn’t even believe in a Rapture, nor in an actual Millennium, so you’re a little off-base here.

 

  • We’re not done with Greg’s straw men.
  • In a rather rambling fashion, he accuses that holding to a pre-Trib Rapture indicates belief that Revelation was written prior to about 96 AD.
  • We’ll that’s exactly the time frame I support.
  • Those who think Revelation was written much earlier, say around 65 AD are of the Preterist persuasion who think that all prophecy was completed prior to the end of 1st

 

  • A strange statement that Greg makes concerns Daniel 12.
  • This one perplexes me greatly as to why he even references it.
  • He says that Daniel 12 only shows one time that people are taken to heaven.
  • Here is Daniel 12:1-3,10, which discuss resurrection at the end of the Tribulation, certainly not the Rapture or anytime earlier:

 

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

 

10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

 

  • He also ties in Daniel 12:4 to the Rapture which has an entirely different focus:

 

4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

 

  • This reference surely appears to point to our current times as to how the world is operating.
  • If there’s a Rapture reference here, I’m missing it.

 

  • There’s more, but I don’t want to bore you with Greg’s disconnected thinking.
  • What I do want to point out is that since he believes in a 6th Seal Rapture, that indicates he believes the church will endure the first 5 Seals.
  • Let’s think about that.
  • Consider some descriptions of the Tribulation in Isaiah 24:1,3-6:

 

1 Behold, the Lord maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.

 

3 The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the Lord hath spoken this word.

4 The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.

5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

 

  • All this begins in Seals 1-4.
  • In Revelation 6:1-8 we see the Lamb – Jesus – opening these Seals of Judgment upon the earth.
  • Note how terrible this is in Revelation 6:8, which correlates with what Isaiah says:

 

8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

 

  • In other words, just in these initial Seals, 1/4 of the population of the earth is at risk of death.
  • If the population of the earth is about 8 billion today (which I actually don’t believe since so many millions have died these last four years from the COVID and vaxx scams), then up to 25% dying means 2 billion people who could lose their lives just in these initial Seals.

 

  • In Greg’s view, the church is subject to this because of the Day of the Lord at the 6th Seal, meaning apparently that the church must endure the first 5 Seals and then be Raptured.
    • So much for having been redeemed by the blood of the Lamb through confessing Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord.
  • So much for being a child of God.
    • Why in the world would God the Father have any interest in protecting His children from such awful conditions?
    • Certainly every earthly father I know would want his children to enter and go through such a challenging time so as to toughen them up – right?
  • What happened to the church as the Bride of Christ?
    • Just think of the bridegrooms you’ve known.
    • Naturally they’d want their beloved bride to risk life and limb to prove their enduring love, despite their previous profession of love and faith.
  • Yes, a little sarcasm is necessary.

 

  • See, this is the same problem that post-Tribbers want to ignore.
  • They want the church to work through its salvation by facing the worst time that will ever come upon this planet.
  • As it turns out, this may be what Greg thinks.
  • Note these two statements he makes:

 

God gives people chances to repent and change from their lies, but they first must work their way to repentance, for they must leave and unlearn everything the world has taught and turn away from it and leave the churches.

 

But wait, the world claims works are not needed.

 

  • That tell us a little about Greg’s doctrinal beliefs, doesn’t it?

 

  • One of the theological requirements for discussing the Tribulation and the Rapture is where Israel fits into the picture.
  • I have repeatedly stated that the Tribulation has two primary purposes:

 

  1. The redemption of Israel whereby the remnant professes Jesus as their Messiah and Savior
  2. God’s judgment upon the unbelieving world that hates Him and has rejected Christ

 

  • Going back to the first 4 Seals one must wonder how the church is required to face these various plagues given the purposes I’ve outlined.
  • Considering the 5th Seal, as stated earlier, that has to do with newly-minted Christians, i.e. those who come to Christ only in the course of the unleashing of the Seal Judgments.

 

  • One can only conclude that Greg’s understanding of the Rapture through what God has said in His Word is clearly off-base.

 

  • What do I believe?
  • I’ve given you a taste of that, of course, in numerous prior Commentaries.

 

  • I believe that Jesus refers to the Rapture in His Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24, as well as to His 2nd
  • I believe that John 14:1-3 reflects the typology of the Galilean Wedding, whereby Jesus has betrothed the church, He has been constructing our future home in His Father’s house, and He will come soon at the time His Father determines, thus imminently for the church, His Bride.

 

  • I believe that 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18 describes the pre-Tribulation Rapture in which the dead in Christ rise first followed by true church saints today.
  • I believe that 1 Corinthians 15:51-53 describes the Rapture that happens in the twinkling of an eye.
  • I believe the Day of the Lord that Paul refers to in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-11 discusses the imminency of the Rapture and how it will occur before the darkness descends on the world.
  • I believe that 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 describes how the Holy Spirit as the Restrainer who indwells both believers in Christ plus the true church must step aside so as to enable the lawless one, the man of perdition, the Antichrist, to emerge onto the world stage.
  • Prior to the Rapture, he cannot do so.
  • In this context, I believe the 1st Seal of Revelation 6:1-2 describes Antichrist’s appearance as the rider on the white horse.

 

  • I also fervently believe that Israel will be deceived by the Antichrist so as to execute the covenant agreement that officially begins the 7-year Tribulation.
  • This is described in Daniel 9:27 as the beginning of Daniel’s 70th week, but also in Isaiah 28:14-20 where the prophet describes the covenant of death that the leaders of Israel agree to, that which will cause them great terror when annulled – exactly what happens when Antichrist breaks the treaty at the midpoint of the Tribulation.
  • All this is necessary for God to focus on Israel.
  • The church is Raptured and seeing Jesus face-to-face.
  • God does this so as to concentrate His efforts toward His Chosen People Israel.

 

  • Greg and too many others focus entirely on the church in their skewed understanding of the Biblical narrative.
  • The church has not replaced Israel.
  • The church has no purpose facing the Day of the Lord.
  • That Day for believers was when we encountered Jesus and said YES to Him.

 

  • It doesn’t matter how many verses a person throws at us in their attempt to overwhelm with their supposed superior Biblical knowledge.
  • We need to engage the text, mediate on it, and seek understanding from the Holy Spirit.
  • There’s also nothing wrong with input from pastors, teachers, and books that have been written.
  • However, as Bereans, we should seek out the truth ourselves, not just taking another person’s word for gospel truth.

 

  • There are many mysteries in the Bible.
  • God has endowed us with good minds and the ability to reason.
  • As such, we should honor Him through the application of our logic in relation to what He has said in His Word.
  • Will we get things wrong sometimes?
  • Of course, we’re human and extremely fallible.
  • However, God honors those who put in the heartfelt effort to seek Him and to understand more fully what He has conveyed through Scripture.
  • In fact, Jesus praises and blesses those who read the book of Revelation for its prophecy.
  • I find it difficult to comprehend that God would not also extend that blessing to the rest of His prophetic Word throughout the Bible.

 

  • What’s our bottom line in this?
  • One conclusion is that when a single person or a very few others have a unique interpretation of Scripture, in which they also condemn people for not believing their theological understanding, that’s a red flag.
  • This one person in all of Biblical history isn’t the only one whom God has chosen to reveal His secrets.
  • Not happening.

 

  • Secondly, in context, the Day of the Lord with His Judgments upon the earth is indeed very near.
  • The pre-Seal, pre-Tribulation Rapture will remove the true church of Jesus Christ prior to that awful time.
  • This is Scriptural and it’s logical, and it’s going to happen soon.

 

  • Let’s use these good brains God has given us and seek the truth of His Word that He wants us to know.

10 Responses to “Awaken Bible Prophecy Update 5-22-24 – 6th Seal Rapture Delusion”

  1. Reply Rick H

    Great article Gary…I get your point unfortunately for Greg his belief seems to be this “before the Bride can be made ready for the Bridegroom he needs to beat the crap out of her first”…and yes I get your sarcasm…LOL!

  2. Reply Rick H

    Greg needs to spend more time in the old testament…if he had he would have seen a perfect example all the way back in Genesis of Abraham saying “will you indeed judge the righteous with the wicked…far be it from you”…it would have been like the Lord telling Lot “I need to get you and your family out of there but I have to wait for you to eat a few fireballs first and then I’ll get you out of there.”…LOL

  3. Reply David Cogburn

    We know that the Bible compares a day to 1000 years. We know God created everything in 6 days of “work” and one day of “rest” and shows these days as 24 hour days with morning and night. Many theologians and the Talmud say God’s plan for humanity is 6 days of work of 1000 years each and one day of rest of 1000 years. God’s plan appears to be 6000 years of work with mankind governing the planet and then 1000 years of rest with Jesus governing the planet to end 7 days of 1000 years each which ends God’s plan for humanity and we have a new heaven and new earth with “no sin”. Thus, it could be said that the “day” of the Lord just might be Jesus’ one day of 1000 years of REST.
    As to Greg not believing in a pretrib rapture, what he does not understand is the rapture is not just an event – it is a “story,” a hidden story. May I post that story? This story also proves the rapture is pretribulation! T
    The church is the BRIDE of Christ. Jesus is a Galilean. All of His disciples are Galileans. Most of the New Testament was written in the Galilean area. The Galileans have their own customs for how they do life and one of their most cherished customs is their wedding custom – everything from proposing to a potential bride to the wedding ceremony itself. When a bridegroom wants to get married, he proposes to a prospective bride by offering her a cup of wine. If she accepts it, she accepts his proposal. If she pushes it back, she rejects his proposal. So, with the church being the bride of Christ, did Jesus ever propose to the church? Yes, He did. He offered a cup of wine to His disciples at the last supper and they drank from it, thus, accepting His proposal. Then in accordance with the Galilean wedding custom, He told them He would not drink from that cup again until they were in His Father’s house. Also, following the Galilean wedding custom, the bridegroom tells his bride He is going back to His father’s house to prepare a place for them to live, and she is to wait for Him to come get her. Jesus told His disciples He was going back to His Father’s house to prepare a place for them to be with Him. The main difference between the Galilean wedding custom and all other wedding customs was the fact the bridegroom and bride did not know the DATE of the wedding. Only the father of the bridegroom knew the DATE and only when he said, go get your bride, son, is when he would go to get His bride. This lines up perfectly with Jesus saying no one knows the date or hour of His return except His Father. This is Jesus coming for His bride and NOT His 2nd coming. Jesus is following all of the Galilean wedding customs to the T. When the bridegroom comes for his bride, she sits on a chair that is mounted on 2 poles called a “LIFT” and she is lifted into the air and carried to her new home. This is referred to as flying the bride to her new home. Obviously, this lines up perfect with Jesus coming for us, His bride, in the AIR and flying us back to our new home. They then enter the door into their new home with all their guests and it is shut and no one can enter or leave for 7 days for the wedding celebration and feast. In the church’s case, it is 7 years to line up with the wedding celebration in heaven for 7 years while the 7-year tribulation of God’s wrath poured out on earth is going on. ALL of this is shown beautifully in a recent movie entitled BEFORE THE WRATH. I highly recommend you check it out on Netflix or Prime or YouTube to get ALL of the details. You will be blessed if you watch this movie. When Greg says the rapture is not pretrib, he is completely IGNORING Jesus coming in the air for His bride to take us back to His place in heaven for our wedding celebration and feast. Also, he does NOT understand that God “always” puts His righteous in a SAFE PLACE right before He brings down His wrath on mankind. There are not many places in the Bible where God does pour out His wrath on mankind. First in 1 Thes 5:9 says For God did not appoint us (the church) to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.” We do not suffer God’s wrath because Jesus took onto Himself God’s wrath on our behalf at the cross. But here are 4 examples of God putting His righteous in a safe place before He pours out His wrath. No. 1 – in Genesis God wants Noah and his family to enter the ark because in 7 days He is going to pour out His wrath on earth with the flood and so He put Noah and his family in a “safe place” to protect them from His wrath. No. 2 – God sends an angel to Lot and tells Lot to go to a “safe place” outside of town, because God is getting ready to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah for their sins. No. 3 – God is pouring out His wrath on Pharaoh and for the 10th plague God tells Moses to put lamb’s blood on the doors of God’s righteous, the Jewish people, so they will be in a “safe place” from God’s wrath to kill the first born in Egypt that night. These 3 examples only involved 2 families and the Jewish people in Egypt. They were God’s righteous in those 3 examples. No. 4 – this is the BIG ONE. God’s righteous now is the church located all over the planet. Where is the ONLY SAFE PLACE God can put His righteous located all over the planet now? HEAVEN.
    Do you want “scripture” showing the rapture is BEFORE the tribulation? Isaiah 26:19-21 NIV. V19 – But your dead will live, Lord. Their bodies will rise. Let those who dwell in the dust wake up and shout for joy. Your dew is like the dew of the morning. The earth will give BIRTH to her dead. (Beautiful rapture verses. V 20 shows it is pre-tribulation) V 20 – Go my people, enter your rooms and shut the doors behind you. Hide yourselves for a little while until His WRATH has passed by. See, the Lord is coming out of His dwelling to punish the people of the earth for their sins. (The church is in heaven “before” Jesus brings His wrath down on earth. Revelation 4:1 also shows this where John, representing the church, is called up to heaven BEFORE Jesus opens ANY seals and the church is not mentioned one time during the tribulation period until chapter 19 at the wedding supper. We are not mentioned because we are not on earth during the tribulation. Maranatha – come quickly Lord Jesus

    • Reply Gary Ritter

      Yes, thank you, David. Unfortunately Greg is rather un-self-aware and cannot see beyond the boundary of what he has constructed as an end-times scenario – and we’re all going to hell because we don’t agree with his interpretation of Scripture. It really does miss a lot as you note!

  4. Reply GaryW.

    So, the picture in my mind shows Greg sitting on a limb with no tree. Just a limb hanging out there.

  5. Reply Robin McCann

    Oh, Gary… why do you persist in throwing your pearls at this proverbial swine? Lol.
    This guy overlooks the fact that the church is not mentioned anymore in Revelation after chapter 4. Ant that bit about his claim that God calls him to argue on other’s posts? That’s crazy. He apparently overlooks where God said something about those who sew discord among the brethren. I wouldn’t have wasted so much time on someone who is not interested in Biblical education but rather to fight instead. Just tell him that if he is a true believer, he’s just gonna have to be surprised, and good day to ya.

    Oh, and if you do continue with Greg, you should tell him that if he starts his own blog, he would certainly have plenty of people to argue with since that is clearly one of his favorite pastimes.

    • Reply Gary Ritter

      Greg was really just the prop to discuss why these other Rapture positions have no merit. As much as someone like Greg throws around Scriptures, it’s useful I think (and maybe I’m wrong?) to poke holes in the position – again just so we can see that just because the Bible is used, doesn’t mean it’s used correctly.

      No, I’ve had my say now with Greg. I don’t need to engage him any more.

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