Awaken Bible Prophecy Update 2-22-23: A Controversial Rapture Discussion

Here we go again.  It seems as though I’ve been either blessed or cursed to examine various Scriptural topics that are off-limits for discussion because they’re controversial and might divide the body of Christ.  Heaven forbid!  My intention is never to do that.  Frankly, the Body is already divided over a number of Biblical subjects, not to mention denominational, so that we’re so fractured in beliefs that Jesus Himself must wonder what He taught.  No, my intent is to foster thought.  It may be that I’m wrong when I lean toward or come to a conclusion, but if in the thinking and discussion, people take warning and adjust how they view God, then maybe it’s a good thing.  The last thing we need to do is come to blows about our different interpretations, yet we seemingly come close to that at times.

When I approach these issues, I don’t take them lightly because of how serious they are.  We as Christians invest a lot in various beliefs.  The one I’ll discuss at length today is no exception.

So, what is this hot-button topic?  Today it’s not to examine the Once Saved, Always Saved “doctrine.”  Can we have a rousing cheer?  No, although I will give my quick take on it.  In today’s Update we’ll look more closely at a cherished understanding regarding the pre-Tribulation Rapture.

Now, I am absolutely committed to a pre-Trib Rapture; I’m fervent about it!  I’ve discussed many reasons in numerous Prophecy Updates and weekly Commentaries.  However. . . as I’ve thought about this, reviewed Scripture, and read the rationale from a number of admired men of God arguing one position or another, I keep coming back to a disturbing aspect of the doctrine: Jesus commanded us to watch and wait, to be alert for His imminent return.  What about those who aren’t obedient to Him in this regard?  The elephant-in-the-room question is: Does Salvation equal Rapture?

There it is.  You can see why this will be a controversial discussion.  If nothing else, what I hope comes of this is that people think.  When we make a doctrine of one thing or another in the church, it’s not always clear that all Scripture points to that position.  There really are other Bible verses that may lead to a different conclusion.  At the least, reflecting on issues like these should bring us to question how dogmatic we should be.

A lot of people believe in a post-Tribulation Rapture, including many esteemed people of God.  Some smaller number – myself included – are convinced Scripture clearly says there will be a pre-Trib Rapture.  What if, in a sense, both camps are right?

 

 

 

Transcript:

Here we go again.  It seems as though I’ve been either blessed or cursed to examine various Scriptural topics that are off-limits for discussion because they’re controversial and might divide the body of Christ.  Heaven forbid!  My intention is never to do that.  Frankly, the Body is already divided over a number of Biblical subjects, not to mention denominational, so that we’re so fractured in beliefs that Jesus Himself must wonder what He taught.  No, my intent is to foster thought.  It may be that I’m wrong when I lean toward or come to a conclusion, but if in the thinking and discussion, people take warning and adjust how they view God, then maybe it’s a good thing.  The last thing we need to do is come to blows about our different interpretations, yet we seemingly come close to that at times.

 

When I approach these issues, I don’t take them lightly because of how serious they are.  We as Christians invest a lot in various beliefs.  The one I’ll discuss at length today is no exception.

 

So, what is this hot-button topic?  Today it’s not to examine the Once Saved, Always Saved “doctrine.”  Can we have a rousing cheer?  No, although I will give my quick take on it.  In today’s Update we’ll look more closely at a cherished understanding regarding the pre-Tribulation Rapture.

 

Now, I am absolutely committed to a pre-Trib Rapture; I’m fervent about it!  I’ve discussed many reasons in numerous Prophecy Updates and weekly Commentaries.  However. . . as I’ve thought about this, reviewed Scripture, and read the rationale from a number of admired men of God arguing one position or another, I keep coming back to a disturbing aspect of the doctrine: Jesus commanded us to watch and wait, to be alert for His imminent return.  What about those who aren’t obedient to Him in this regard?  The elephant-in-the-room question is: Does Salvation equal Rapture?

 

There it is.  You can see why this will be a controversial discussion.  If nothing else, what I hope comes of this is that people think.  When we make a doctrine of one thing or another in the church, it’s not always clear that all Scripture points to that position.  There really are other Bible verses that may lead to a different conclusion.  At the least, reflecting on issues like these should bring us to question how dogmatic we should be.

 

A lot of people believe in a post-Tribulation Rapture, including many esteemed people of God.  Some smaller number – myself included – are convinced Scripture clearly says there will be a pre-Trib Rapture.  What if, in a sense, both camps are right?

 

We’ll dive into this momentarily.  First, we’ll pray then read from God’s Word.

 

<PRAY>

 

Scripture

 

Isaiah 55:6-9

“Seek the Lord while he may be found;
    call upon him while he is near;
let the wicked forsake his way,
    and the unrighteous man his thoughts;
let him return to the 
Lord, that he may have compassion on him,
    and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
    neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
    so are my ways higher than your ways
    and my thoughts than your thoughts.

 

A Controversial Rapture Discussion

  • Since I mentioned it and because it takes us more or less down the same road, let me comment briefly on the belief of Once Saved, Always Saved
  • I said you could cheer, but only because I’ll just say a few words about this
  • For the record, I don’t believe that someone can lose his salvation
  • What I do believe is that because of our free will, someone can choose to walk away from God
  • If the apostasy is severe enough, yes, I think salvation can be forfeited
  • After all, if someone no longer desires a relationship with God, will this person go to heaven?
  • Will there be any unbelievers in heaven?
  • I don’t think so
  • What this really boils down to is what I call believing loyalty
  • King David had it
  • That’s why he was a man after God’s own heart
  • What did have?
  • He had the absolute certainty that there was no true God but Yahweh, and that he would worship none other
  • His belief was in God alone and his loyalty was toward God only
  • If someone who was truly born again and for whatever reason makes the determination that God alone is not adequate, and he deliberately chooses to follow and worship other gods – in other words, he grieves the Holy Spirit by disdaining Jesus as Savior and Lord – then that choice will condemn him to eternal fire
  • We can ask why in the world a person would do such a rash thing, yet in my reading, various Scriptures make it clear than such a thing can happen
  • God will not receive someone to Himself in heaven if that person has broken all ties and relationship with Him
  • Dispute that if you will, but you’ll need to explain to me how it would work that a once-believer, now truly an unbeliever, gains entry to heaven
  • And if you say that’s impossible because Jesus keeps His own. . .
  • That’s true, but if a person doesn’t want anymore what Jesus offers. . . as we say – the Holy Spirit is a gentleman – the Lord will not force Himself on someone

 

  • With that out of the way, let’s look at this equally controversial – and frankly, disturbing, issue of whether all people who are saved will be received by Jesus when He comes in the clouds in the pre-Tribulation Rapture
  • Here the problem. . .
  • Over the years many solid and amazing men of God have taken positions on either side of the divide
  • On one hand are those well-known believers who determined that Christians must go through some or all of the Tribulation – presuming the Rapture would be at the end of those horrific seven years, i.e. these would be mid- or post-Tribbers
  • Among these men are familiar names such as George Muller – who actually first believed in a pre-Trib Rapture and changed his position; A.B. Simpson; W.J. Erdman – a man noted for his exceptional skill in Bible exegesis; and R.A. Torrey – again another man who initially held to a pre-Trib Rapture belief
  • Those who solidly maintained that a pre-Tribulation Rapture was the correct Scriptural interpretation included such luminaries as John Nelson Darby – who has incorrectly been labeled as the originator of pre-Trib doctrine; C.J. Scofield – whose study Bible has been used far and wide; lately Messianic Israeli Jew and evangelist Amir Tsarfati; and Pastor J.D. Farag – whose weekly Prophecy Updates reach a worldwide audience
  • I put myself in this group but don’t quite have the credentials all these men have – although as you’ll see, I now have reservations to an extent
  • Then there is a third school of thought
  • This camp believes in what has been come to be called a “Partial Rapture”
  • Among those in this group are Hudson Taylor – the great missionary to China; G.H. Pember – among whose writings include the book Earth’s Earliest Ages; Robert Govett – whose writings Charles Spurgeon praised as being a light century ahead of their time and as being full of gold; and Watchman Nee – an incredible, humble, man of faith in China during the middle years of the 20th century
  • I’ll come back to Watchman Nee shortly
  • So here we have it
  • Basically, three seemingly radically diverse approaches to this most crucial of beliefs for the church
  • We have amazing men of God that through their study and time with the Lord came to very different determinations as to how and when the Rapture occurs
  • As far as post-Trib versus pre-Trib, it’s obvious that only one can be correct; thus, the other must be wrong. . .
  • Isn’t that what we must conclude?
  • Even throwing in the Partial Rapture as it’s been described puts that at significant odds with the other positions
  • But, you know, there’s a funny thing about God
  • We read and study Scripture, and we become convinced that our interpretation is right
  • Yet, many times God kind of pulls a fast one on us
  • He basically says: “Nice try. I appreciate that you’re making the attempt to figure out and know the mind of God, but you’ve fallen a little short.”
  • Take for example Joshua when he and the Israelites were about to cross the Jordan River into Canaan at Jericho and begin the eradication of the giant tribes inhabiting the Promised Land
  • Here is Joshua 5:13-15 concerning this:

 

When Joshua was by Jericho, he lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, a man was standing before him with his drawn sword in his hand. And Joshua went to him and said to him, “Are you for us, or for our adversaries?” And he said, “No; but I am the commander of the army of the Lord. Now I have come.” And Joshua fell on his face to the earth and worshiped and said to him, “What does my lord say to his servant?” And the commander of the Lord‘s army said to Joshua, “Take off your sandals from your feet, for the place where you are standing is holy.” And Joshua did so.

 

  • Joshua encountered the pre-incarnate Jesus as the Commander of the Lord’s Army
  • Thinking in human terms, Joshua wants to know if God is on their side
  • God being God tells Joshua “No”
  • That’s a strange response
  • In reality, God is saying: “You need to be on My side and worship Me”
  • “When you do that, I’ll take care of the rest”
  • So you see, our assumptions and presumptions concerning God, and the way He works aren’t always right
  • What is right is that we worship Him and Him alone and approach Him in reverent fear
  • Maybe in the case of pre-Trib, post-Trib, and Partial Rapture, the answer isn’t either/or
  • Rather perhaps, it should be both/and
  • Or in this situation: all
  • I’ve listed a number of source links on the Rumble page, so you can go peruse them and see some of the various arguments one way or another
  • For my part I want to approach this topic somewhat differently in a way I’ve not come across by anyone else
  • That either makes me innovatively brilliant or a fool
  • In either case, I’ll let God deal with me and any fallout, since I’ve done my best to seek Him in order that He gets any glory
  • As you’ve certainly perceived by now, I’m taking a middle road
  • When it comes to our faith in Christ, that can be dangerous
  • If we’re double-minded and straddle the fence as to whether we should follow Jesus or not, that can lead to emasculation
  • The timing of the Rapture is not a salvation issue like that
  • My middle road with the Rapture is one that’s a little different from what has been labeled the Partial Rapture
  • I don’t like that term particularly and would gladly come up with another if it accurately described my thoughts
  • The way the Partial Rapture has often been described is that some number of believers are initially Raptured prior to the Tribulation, then others at one or varying points during the Tribulation
  • I don’t agree with that approach
  • In a future Friday Commentary, I plan to deal with that and provide another way to look at it

 

  • I’ve just finished reading two different biographies on Watchman Nee
  • It’s hard to come away from them without having a great appreciation for this incredible and humble man of faith
  • On the website devoted to him, they call him a seer who received many revelations from God
  • That may be – however, I’m somewhat leery about calling anyone these days a prophet, apostle, or seer
  • Whether or not Watchman Nee actually received Godly revelations, I certainly can’t say
  • What is widely reported is that this was a man who studied God’s Word extensively and was deeply concerned about walking righteously with Him
  • It’s said that Nee had 40 different Bible study methods
  • For many years – perhaps every year after he came to the Lord, except when he was imprisoned for the last 20 years of his life and didn’t have access to a Bible – his practice was to read the entire New Testament every week
  • You heard that correctly
  • This was in addition to whatever reading he did in the Old Testament and his other study techniques
  • This was a man dedicated to God and steeped in His Word
  • If anyone could hear from the Lord, I’d think it could be someone like Watchman Nee
  • Just a quick comment about how humble He was. . .
  • A number of times throughout his life, he was accused of various wrongs
  • As history showed, none of these accusations was true
  • Yet Watchman Nee never defended himself
  • He took the allegations calmly and without protest whatsoever
  • Once someone was haranguing Watchman over the phone about all the wrongs he had done
  • He simply said, “Yes, thank you. . . thank you.”
  • His wife asked what that was about and he told her
  • She said, “Were any of those charges true?”
  • No they weren’t
  • Then why not push back and defend his honor?
  • Watchman simply noted – as he did many times – that Jesus when accused was silent
  • Jesus was Watchman’s model to do what He did
  • As a result, he too remained silent in the face of unjust complaints and denunciations
  • As I noted earlier, Nee believed in the third school of Rapture thought – namely that of a so-called Partial Rapture
  • You can read the extended excerpt from a book at the link below in which Nee outlines his thinking about the different Rapture positions
  • In brief summary, Nee believed that the Rapture was a reward and that it was given to believers who could be labeled as overcomers
  • You can imagine that this in itself is controversial

 

  • What I want to do the rest of the way is to suggest an explanatory extension of this idea of Watchman Nee to try to make sense of it in a little different light
  • To do this we need to explore several seemingly diverse passages in Scripture, including:
    • The churches of Revelation
    • The blessings and curses detailed in Deuteronomy 28
    • The crowns that will be awarded in heaven
  • Before we get to these ideas, let’s first set the stage by considering several verses in the book of Judges
  • I mentioned earlier the concept of believing loyalty
  • The Exodus generation of Israelites didn’t have it
  • Because of their unbelief, they perished in the wilderness
  • The 2nd generation effectively did have it because they’d seen the consequences with their parents of not believing God
  • When they came into the Promised Land, God was with them – generally because they worshiped only Him – and He – as the Commander of the Army of the Lord – went to battle for them and defeated their enemies
  • They had their instances of un- or dis-belief, but by and large, this generation believed and followed God
  • Sadly, they didn’t teach their children well as Crosby, Stills, and Nash would sing – and this next generation began turning from the Lord
  • As a result, we reach the situation in Judges 3:2,4:

 

It was only in order that the generations of the people of Israel might know war, to teach war to those who had not known it before.

 

They [i.e. the nations God allowed to come against this generation] were for the testing of Israel, to know whether Israel would obey the commandments of the Lord, which he commanded their fathers by the hand of Moses.

 

  • In other words, would these people obey God or go their own way?
  • God allowed certain situations and conditions to occur
  • He did so for two reasons
    • #1 – He wanted to teach His people how to war against the enemy
    • #2 – He wanted to test them to determine if they’d learned their lesson
  • Is there a parallel to the church of today from this disobedient generation of ancient Israelites?
  • The people of Israel lived among the Canaanites and the other giant tribes in the land they were supposed to have annihilated
  • They didn’t
  • And what happened?
  • Consider Judges 3:7-8:

 

And the people of Israel did what was evil in the sight of the Lord. They forgot the Lord their God and served the Baals and the Asheroth. Therefore the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and he sold them into the hand of [the] king of Mesopotamia. 

 

  • We’ve spoken of this many times
  • The church today is far from God
  • It is – essentially – a church of the world, that worships the things of the world
  • As Judges 3:6 says at the end of the verse: and they served their gods
  • Is that not the condition of the church in these latter days?
  • Does it have believing loyalty toward the One true God, or is it pursuing false and pagan gods?
  • You know the answer as well as I do
  • The questions we have before us then in looking at this potential parallel are:
    • Has the church today been tested by going to war against its enemies?
    • If so, what has our war been?
    • Have we learned to fend off our enemies in order to follow only God?
    • If not, what might God do so as to instruct and purify His church?
  • My answers are:
    • In various parts of the world, yes, the church has been tested through persecution and suffering
    • Our war in America so far has been very different
      • It has been a war against apathy – one that we appear to have lost
    • Rather than pursue the things of God, the church has sought the things of the world, so no, we have not learned to defeat our enemies
    • When Israel didn’t learn its lessons, God brought fierce enemies against her so that she would learn to cry out to God and depend on Him
      • I simply wonder: Will God let the apathy of the church slide such that it doesn’t experience war – so to speak – and thus no longer be tested; and in that testing, emerge victorious?
    • Like I said: I wonder. . .
    • And in my wondering, I conclude: maybe not
    • Maybe God won’t let such complacency slide

 

The Churches of Revelation

  • With that, let’s briefly look at a several things about the churches in Revelation 2-3
  • The letters that Christ dictated to John while he was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day were to seven specific churches
  • It is also widely acknowledged that these churches represent different church periods throughout the ages
  • Additionally, it is believed that they also represent the condition of the end times church in various ways
  • To this final point, what did Jesus say to each of these churches as warning and encouragement?
  • We’ll just go from top to bottom as given to John. . .
  • Ephesus
    • They abandoned their first love
    • If they don’t repent, Christ will remove their lampstand
    • If they do overcome and conquer, they will eat of the tree of life
  • Smyrna
    • No condemnation
    • They’ve suffered and endured much persecution
    • Because they’ve been faithful, they will receive the crown of life
  • Pergamum
    • They’ve followed false teachings by worshiping pagan gods and indulging in sexual immorality
    • If they don’t repent, God will war against them
    • If they overcome and conquer, they will receive a new name reflecting their devotion to Christ
  • Thyatira
    • They also have followed false teachings by exalting idols and have engaged in sexual immorality
    • Without repentance their fate is dire – they will experience a sickbed, great tribulation, and death
    • Their reward for overcoming and conquering is to rule with authority over nations
  • Sardis
    • This church is asleep and hasn’t completed the works set out for it
    • Their condition means that Christ will come against them at an unknown hour
    • Those in this church who overcome and conquer will wear white, holy garments because their names are written in the Book of Life
  • Philadelphia
    • No condemnation
    • They have little strength yet have kept God’s Word and not denied Him
    • They will escape the trial that will come upon the whole earth
    • In doing so, they will be pillars in the house of God with His Name written upon them
  • Laodicea
    • This church is lukewarm and useless in God’s kingdom on earth
    • They have so much need in their pride and nakedness which should produce shame and repentance
    • If they retain this condition, the Lord will spit them out and remove them from His presence
    • He loves them – as He loves all His churches
    • If they overcome and conquer, they will sit with Christ on His throne, even as He sits with the Father

 

  • The questions that come to mind include:
    • Are these still churches today that Jesus loves?
    • Is He giving these churches the opportunity to follow hard after Him through repentance?
    • If they don’t repent, is there a consequence?
  • The answers are:
    • Yes, Jesus continues to love them despite their waywardness and sin
    • Jesus absolutely gives these churches every means possible to follow Him; He desperately desires that they should repent
    • 100% – there is a consequence for disobeying the Word of Christ
  • With each of these churches it appears as if there are different kinds of repercussions for their disobeying the Lord – but consequences nonetheless
  • To put these consequences in perspective, here they are again for the five churches needing correction:
    • Ephesus – If they don’t repent, Christ will remove their lampstand
    • Pergamum – If they don’t repent God will war against them
    • Thyatira – Without repentance their fate is dire – they will experience a sickbed, great tribulation, and death
    • Sardis – Their condition means that Christ will come against them at an unknown hour
    • Laodicea – If they retain their pride and nakedness, the Lord will spit them out and remove them from His presence
  • If these churches are representative of believers today, don’t these warning apply?
  • Could one possibly interpret the warnings as meaning that the believers in these churches who don’t repent may face consequences?
  • Might those consequences include God’s need for them to enter the Tribulation so that they are broken, humbled, and might learn to repent?
  • After all, if they repent beforehand as God warned, no problem
  • But if they don’t, might that be a problem for them???
  • Let me add fuel to the fire
  • Do you recall the parable Jesus told in Luke 12 about warning His servants to be ready for their master when he returns?
  • In that narrative Jesus goes on to say something that seems to relate to what I’m suggesting here with these various churches
  • Listen to Jesus in Luke 12:45-48:

 

But if that servant says to himself, ‘My master is delayed in coming,’ and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and get drunk, the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces and put him with the unfaithful. And that servant who knew his master’s will but did not get ready or act according to his will, will receive a severe beating. But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more.

 

  • You tell me: What does Jesus mean when the servant who doesn’t do the will of the master will be cut in pieces and put with the unfaithful?
  • What does it mean that he will receive a severe beating?
  • Does this apply to unbelievers?
  • I don’t think so since these were servants in the master’s house
  • Does this only apply to believers NOT receiving rewards?
  • That description seems pretty harsh if that’s the case
  • How about if it’s said in the same context as the Revelation churches where Jesus speaks of severe consequences for not repenting and following Him as He commanded?
  • Is there not a very high probability that this could mean that apathetic, unrepentant BELIEVERS might be required to enter the Tribulation?
  • Somebody needs to explain to me how all this evidence pointing to this possibility doesn’t actually mean what it surely implies

 

 

The Blessings and Curses Detailed in Deuteronomy 28

  • A detailed study of this is beyond the scope of my discussion today
  • However, I want to point out some key aspects of what is said here
  • Consider Deuteronomy 28:1:

 

“And if you faithfully obey the voice of the Lord your God, being careful to do all his commandments that I command you today, the Lord your God will set you high above all the nations of the earth.”

 

  • God goes on from here to outline how His favor is upon those who obey Him, and how His blessings are beyond imagination
  • Obedience to Him – worshiping Him above and to the exclusion of any other – and doing all that He commands. . .
  • This is the key to God’s goodness and mercy following His children all the days of their lives
  • In other words, when God’s people have believing loyalty, there is nothing that He won’t do for them
  • On the other hand, see what happens beginning in Deuteronomy 28:15:

 

“But if you will not obey the voice of the Lord your God or be careful to do all his commandments and his statutes that I command you today, then all these curses shall come upon you and overtake you.”

 

  • Disobedience to the commands of God have extremely unpleasant consequences
  • You can read for yourself how terrible it is for God’s people when they choose not to obey Him
  • The curses go on and on
  • In fact, there are almost 4x as many verses devoted to the curses than the blessings
  • Let me remind you of some commands that God has given us that we do well to obey
  • . .
    • Jesus said in John 14:15:

 

“If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

 

  • In John 15:14, He said:

 

You are my friends if you do what I command you.

 

  • First, of course, is the Ten Commandments
  • God gave them to Moses
  • Since Jesus is God, Jesus is the One who gave them to Moses
  • We don’t obey them legalistically like the Jews have done; we obey them because the Holy Spirit dwells within us and we want to obey them in order to please God
  • We want to do what Jesus commanded, and we want to be His friend
  • Several more of Jesus’ commandments are:
    • Love one another (John 13:34-35)
    • Pray for your enemies (Matthew 5:44-45)
    • Repent (Matthew 4:17)
    • Believe that Jesus is in the Father (John 14:11)
    • Take up your cross (Matthew 16:24-25)
    • Go and make disciples (Matthew 28:18-20)
    • Pray always (Luke 21-36)
    • Watch, be alert and awake for His return (Mark 13:32-37; Matthew 24:42-44, 25:13)
    • There are many more such verses

 

  • The question then becomes: For these and the many more commands of Jesus, what if His people, i.e. those truly saved, do not obey them in part of all?
  • Other questions include:
  • Are there implications, ramifications, consequences for being a lackadaisical, apathetic Christian, i.e. one who is satisfied with the knowledge that he’s born-again and going to heaven, but isn’t particularly concerned about his sin after that because of God’s grace?
  • If the various commandments of Jesus become for this person a suggestion instead of a must-do and obey requirement. . .
  • How might such disobedience impact a Christian of this kind?
  • Will it only be a matter of not receiving crowns in heaven as rewards, or might there be something more to consider?
  • When we think about the disobedience of the Israelites and what they faced in curses from Deuteronomy 28, is there anything there that might subsequently fall upon a believer today when he does not obey the voice of the Lord?
  • It was certainly dreadful for God’s children in Israel
  • How about today?
  • Should the lessons of the past be discarded?
  • Or do the consequences that fell upon the Israelites have more to do with disobedient people in the church than we typically think?
  • With that as a springboard, let’s look at the last of my points that I outlined earlier

 

 

The Crowns That Will Be Awarded in Heaven

  • There are five crowns noted in the New Testament as rewards for believers
  • They are:
    • #1 – The Imperishable Crown – (1 Corinthians 9:24-25)
      • This is for faithful endurance in following Christ – those who run the race well and don’t store up treasures here on earth – rather do so in heaven
    • #2 – The Crown of Rejoicing – (1 Thessalonians 2:19)
      • This is for those believers who rejoice in the Lord regardless of circumstances
    • #3 – The Crown of Righteousness – (2 Timothy 4:8)
      • This is for all who love the Lord Jesus and eagerly wait for His return; it is for those who depend on Christ for His righteousness and not their own
    • #4 – The Crown of Glory – (1 Peter 5:4)
      • Primarily addressed to elders but for all believers who long for and love Christ’s glory and splendor and honor Him for who He is
    • #5 – The Crown of Life – (Revelation 2:10)
      • This is for all believers who endure suffering and persecution for the sake of Jesus
    • These are awarded to the faithful in their Christian life on earth
    • If they aren’t faithful in this manner, obviously they don’t receive a crown
    • But what if there’s more here than meets the eye, as I mentioned earlier, with God doing things His way that we don’t necessarily perceive?
    • Can people be saved yet do what is evil in the sight of the Lord and effectively bring down His curses?
    • In their doing that evil, might He punish them as He did the Israelites?
    • Or, do we think that God will allow saved people in the church to simply do whatever evil they wish without repercussions?
    • How far does the grace of Christ extend toward born-again believers who live for the world and not for God?
    • We see in Judges 1 the repetitive statement that the Israelites did not drive out the inhabitants of the land (Judges 1:19,21,27,28,29,30,31,32,33)
    • What was the result?
    • They became a snare for God’s people
    • As a result, repetitively they did evil in the sight of the Lord (Judges 2:11;3:7,12;4:1;6:1;8:33-34;10:6;13:11)
    • For doing this evil, i.e. for allowing the world to consume them such that they followed it and not God, the Lord allowed them to suffer greatly under varying forms of persecution and oppression
    • Again, I ask: Might there be a parallel that may apply to apathetic, worldly believers in today’s church?
    • A week ago, I posted a Commentary regarding the Parable of the Ten Virgins and asked the following question. . .
    • Might the apathetic church of today be likened to the five virgins who didn’t prepare and had no oil in their lamps?
    • When we’ve considered the various Seal Judgments and look at the 5th Seal, I wonder if perhaps we’ve interpreted this somewhat incorrectly
    • The general thinking – mine included – has been to identify these myriad martyred believers as ones who did not believe going into the Tribulation, but then became believers
    • There are a lot of martyrs gathered around God’s throne in this scene
    • Certainly, I believe there will be a wonderful revival of belief once the Tribulation starts
    • However, given the numbers, is it possible – based on what I’ve argued thus far – that many, many of these martyrs might be apathetic believers of today whom God needed to refine in their faith?
    • By experiencing persecution and suffering – just like the church at Smyrna – is it conceivable that God needs to have these believers get off the fence and no longer be double-minded toward Him?
    • Just like the Israelites faced with blessings and curses, if they aren’t obeying God today to receive His blessings, might He require them to receive His curses?
    • Could these apathetic believers of today doing evil in the sight of the Lord – that is, those who haven’t driven out the enemies from the world and have instead embraced them – need to undergo a purification process from God on this earth before receiving heavenly glory?
    • Now, whenever this idea of believers going through the Tribulation comes up, it’s always framed as their having to perform works of some kind
    • Does it sound like I’m talking about works here?
    • No, I’m talking about faith – a heart condition – believing loyalty toward God which says “I’m not living for the world; I’m living for God”
    • In considering this situation in this manner, the question naturally arises: What qualifies one toward being worthy of Rapture and escaping this purification in the Tribulation?
    • Like I said earlier, Watchman Nee thought it had to do with overcoming and rewards
    • How do we define that?
    • It’s why I noted the various Crowns
    • What if the qualifier for meeting Christ in the air in the Rapture is whether a person has earned a crown?
    • In that sense, yes, Watchman Nee would be correct
    • In other words, a person who has overcome the world and will receive a crown for doing so is also one who qualifies to be Raptured
    • Is that fair?
    • Why not?
    • Why should every believer – especially those who have not been obedient to the Lord – join Him in the bridal chambers?
    • Why wouldn’t some number of believers be like the five virgins without oil?
    • They knock at the door, but it’s closed – they blew it
    • Assuming all this to be true, what about this idea of how the Partial Rapture plays out?
    • Again, I don’t like that name because it has connotations with which I don’t agree
    • But for want of a better name or description, we’ll go with it for now
    • Why do so many think that in a Partial Rapture, after the first group of – let’s say: crown wearers – ascend to be with Jesus prior to the Tribulation, that there will be subsequent Raptures, i.e. one or more during the Tribulation?
    • Also, in considering this idea, might there be protection of some sort for these believers during the Tribulation?
    • What are the implications of these questions?
    • Isn’t it amazing how many questions there are when we try to work our way through a Godly conundrum?
    • I kind of answered these questions a couple minutes ago
    • The Tribulation has two primary purposes:
      • #1 – The redemption of Israel
      • #2 – Punishment in the form of wrath and judgment upon the unbelieving world
    • If our apathetic believers go into the Tribulation – because they don’t have believing loyalty and are effectively double-minded – are they not basically no different from unbelievers?
    • Of course, we know that God provides every means possible for the unbelieving during this horrific period to turn to Him
    • He’s got evangelism covered with the 144,000 Jewish evangelists, the two witnesses in Jerusalem, and the angel crisscrossing the world at the end to make sure no is left who hasn’t heard the Gospel
    • FYI – God does not need the church to go into the Tribulation in order to evangelize
    • He might use some or many to do so, but I think their primary purpose at that time is to learn to fear and revere God, and to discover how to obey Him
    • As they do this, I think there will be an incredible outpouring of spiritual – supernatural – gifts
    • Among other means, they will likely be very visible and thus paint a target on believers – whether those who entered the Tribulation as believers or who confessed Christ as Lord during it
    • Additionally, they may stand out excessively because they don’t comply with the world’s dictates
    • For both groups – the left behind and new believers – the result will be persecution, suffering, and death for untold millions
    • Martyrdom is the primary end for believers of any stripe during the Tribulation
    • If they’re martyred, they’re not Raptured
    • So, subsequent Raptures after the pre-Trib Rapture don’t make sense to me
    • At the conclusion of the Tribulation, there are some number of both Jews and Gentiles who have made it through alive
    • It is these in their mortal bodies who will initially enter the Millennium and re-populate the earth
    • Why some of both groups remain alive – how that happens – is not clear – but we know it must and does happen
    • Will some of them have been those believers who through their initial apathy entered the Tribulation?
    • Perhaps
    • For most of us today who are fervent in our belief of a pre-Trib Rapture, I know many of us are greatly looking forward to our glorified body
    • To go into the Millennium – even in a revamped human body – doesn’t hold much interest for me
    • As far as I’m concerned, glorified is the way to go
    • However, not everyone thinks like me in this respect
    • Maybe it’s a reward for some to actually go into the Millennium in human form

 

  • So here’s a quick wrap-up. . .
  • Just as I believe some people can choose to walk away from salvation once having been born-again, I think it’s very possible that some – because they haven’t taken their faith seriously as God requires – may of necessity have to endure some or all of the Tribulation
  • They weren’t obedient to the Lord now when they had the opportunity and instead choose the way of the world despite their salvation
  • As a result, God must purify them through the fire
  • In this sense they would become like the church of Smyrna who – once they’d endured – faced no condemnation from the Lord
  • The rest of us can be looked upon as the Philadelphia church
  • We’ve been faithful and obedient
  • We have little strength remaining, yet carry on doing the Lord’s work
  • For all of us meeting this description, whether watching and alert or not – because all of us have feared and revered the Lord – He will come in the clouds to take us to His Father’s House

11 Responses to “Awaken Bible Prophecy Update 2-22-23: A Controversial Rapture Discussion”

  1. Reply Layne Dewlen

    Goodness Gary, you do like to stir the pot! I too have thought about some of what you had to say, but not to the depth of which you have gone. My wife, and i were both impressed and moved by you article.
    One question I have that has bothered me for a long time, for which I have not been able to find an answer. The question originally had to do with those who say the church must go through at least part of the tribulation to be purified. My thought was that in that case I would rather die before it came. After all, is not our salvation completed at our death?
    Anyway, my question to you is, what about those that would not have gone up in the “partial” rapture but die just before it happens? Where would they fit in all of this? Will they be better off than if they would have lived?
    Thanks again for what you do, it’s MUCH appreciated. Keep stirring the pot!

    • Reply Gary Ritter

      Layne,
      I’m with you. I’ve said privately (now public in this comment!) that given my belief in the pre-Trib Rapture, I’d rather die than enter and/or go through the Trib. Just kill me now. In that sense the post-Tribbers are correct that belief in pre-Trib doesn’t get people ready to endure. Guess they’re right.

      Under the scenario you pose about someone who would have remained left behind during a possible partial Rapture but dies instead prior: In one sense, lucky him (or her). Other the other hand, by actually facing the Trib and enduring – probably being martyred – would that person not possibly gain one or more crowns as rewards for having done that?

      As you’ve gleaned, this is a very thorny subject which takes people places they’d rather not think about. Yet…yet… if someone hears this message that is saved but not living for the Lord and this causes them to change for the better, is it not worth it? The problem is that those who need to hear this cautionary tale the most are probably least likely to.

  2. Reply Jude C

    Wow Gary this update did not disappoint. Thanks again for the boldness to cover topic’s that some consider taboo. The issue with allot of the church is fully understanding Free Will. They accept it when it comes to salvation but by their teachings seam to be saying you lose it after salvation. They will say those who walk away from following the Lord never came to a real salvation experience, because no one who new the Lord would walk away. Yet fallen angels who where in the presence of GOD by free will followed satan. They use the strongman’s argument to put us all in one category saying works, works but we are saying free will. I feel its the only way to fully understand the scriptures literally.

    • Reply Gary Ritter

      That’s been my “problem”. I read these various passages that many people say mean that someone never had salvation in the first place, but I don’t see that. Why warn believers about walking away from God if it’s not something we can do?

  3. Reply Dave Golembiewski

    After that, WE who are still alive and
    are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in
    the air. And so WE will be with the Lord forever.” (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)

    This scripture says “WE who are still alive” is stated with no exceptions.
    Your interpretation negates Eph 2:8,9. By grace WE have been saved. Are some less saved than others?

    • Reply Gary Ritter

      They may not be less saved, but there can be no argument that some hold Christ as Lord as well as Savior, while others do not.

      • Reply Dave Golembiewski

        1 Thes 4:16
        “For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.” What if some of the dead in Christ needed to go through the Tribulation to “purify” or “purge” because they are carnal but died one minute before the rapture? Are they saved? Does the application of your doctrine of partial rapture apply only to the living at the time of the rapture?

        • Reply Gary Ritter

          It would have to. There have always been people like this, obviously, but these are very different times as well. I just know that there are an awful lot of warnings to believers against carnal living. I always look at the flip side of these things. Why warn if it’s not an issue?

  4. Reply Anne-Marie Murnion

    Gary, I love your work and this is a thought provoking argument, but I have to respectfully disagree with your conclusion. Correct me if I’m wrong, but you said “despite their salvation…. God must purify them through the fire”. That word “purify” sounds to me a lot like the word “purge”. I was brought up in the catholic church but God mercifully saved me. We believed in purgatory, i.e. the purging after death of anything not sorted out before death. Now, I know that you are speaking of alive but disobedient believers, not dead believers, so its very reasonable to consider if we need purified or purged here on earth. But I can’t help thinking that his idea conflicts with Hebrews chapter one “when He had, by Himself, purged our sins, He sat down at the right hand of God”. The Lord Jesus suffered and died before I was even born or had committed any disobedience. It seems to me that we are speaking of the sufficiency of the sacrifice of Christ, and whether “it is finished”.
    Anne-Marie

    • Reply Gary Ritter

      Anne-Marie,
      I appreciate your respectful disagreement. Sometimes ideas like this that go against the grain of thought are met with less than kind responses. This is a difficult issue and one that is also hard to put into words as to how it might work. The term “purge” is definitely too harsh. Isn’t it interesting: I see passages like Jesus’ parable of the disobedient/wicked servant while others such as yourself view the Hebrews verse as the one to go with. That’s the problem, i.e. there are seemingly conflicting verses on the subject. There’s obviously a correct interpretation all-around, and perhaps none of us really has it. It’s the reason I often say that not a single one of us who teaches Bible prophecy will be completely correct. God inevitably has a deeper meaning that no one can interpret or guess in all instances. The one thing we know: this will all sort itself out very soon!

      • Reply Anne-Marie Murnion

        Gary, yes I agree, it looks like very soon – a comforting thought as well as a sense of urgency.
        Anne-Marie

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